the perfect 4wd.

[Geoffs89Pathy]

well i wasnt really sure on where to post this but i guess here is as good as place as any.
im struggling with what kind of suspension setup for my future competition style buggy is better for say KOH(King of Hammers in Johnson valley CA). you go fast through the desert and you go up and over some of the biggest baddest rocks in the world.
i recently have been leaning towards a 1 link with either a wishbone or panhard or maybe even a watts link. i would prefer the lateral control to not pull the axle to one side as a panhard does.
1 links offer awesome amount of articulation as well as drivetrain protection since you can plate it all the way across on the bottom. it is also not too too complicated to setup as far as i can tell and cost is not really an issue at this point. i know some people may know it as a redneck set up but when it is setup correctly with correct parts it is probably just as strong as anything else. for the joint i would use a legit 360 joint designed for this purpose and not just some JJ or trailer hitch or grader ball. it would be done right. this is not my issue i am contemplating.
but as i research and think about it, a 1 link with a wishbone looks almost identical to a double triangulated 4 link. ( both have opposing triangles connecting the axle to the chassis)
differences i know of:
1 link has a constant center and a double tri has an instant center.
1 link only has 1 frame mount (theoretically weaker) ( yet has more area that is fixed to the axle)
double tri has 4(ish)frame mounts (theoretically stronger; more points at which the axle is held on to the frame.)
what my issue is, is that i dont know enough about issues such as anti-squat differences; rollcenter differences; on road handling differences; and binding issues and differences.

will the 1 link have too much body roll on street use?
will double tri bind at some point during articulation?
can i use jjs at the frame side for the wishbone( will it work like its supposed to)?


and after determining that issue is the next issue of whether to use coils or coilovers? i am leaning towards coils right now but i am not gonna say why.
what is better as a limiting factor? Shocks or Coilovers?
what can i get the most articulation out of?
will the coilovers bind at some point if they are not vertical or perpendicular to the axle while going over whoops.
will the shocks bind?
what is better......?

i want everyones input that might have something educational to say. i want to know as much about this as i can. in the mean time i will attempt to teach myself more about the anti squat stuff and such. maybe i will figure it out on my own.

[tweetys_revenge]

Most of the riggs I have seen use some type of Coil suspention weather its coil over shocks or coils with air shocks depends on the builder on the speed channel they have shows on sometimes that show the race your talking about.

[theking]

What sort of buggy you planning on building? pathfinder based? Full tube? Depending on what layout you go with will determine what suspension design will fit.

You know, having the axle move outward on the stuffed side, as with a panhard setup, isn't all that bad. It keeps the tires from rubbing the frame and gives more clearance for the shocks or coilovers. My rear tires would rub the frame at full stuff if it didn't move outward. And a one link still needs a panhard.

[caseycrisp]

i would say to read as much as you can on pirate4x4. there is weeks of reading material on there that covers this topic.

i'm not saying it can't be done another way, but from what i've seen, i would say 90% of KOH buggies are double triangulated 4 links with coilovers, ORI struts, or air shocks (usually with air bump stops too). don't know if i've ever seen a one link or coils on a high speed desert/rock racer. it might be done, but i wouldn't think its the norm.

i have seen some three links w/ panhards on high end buggies, but they usually have full hydraulic steering. there is no drag link, so they set it up where when sitting flat, the panhard mount is often times higher on the axle side than the frame mount. the don't have to worry about bump steer. and i believe this technique allows for a better articulation cycle.

what is better as a limiting factor? Shocks or Coilovers?

are you talking about limiting droop/articulation? neither. you want limit straps. using shocks/coilovers to limit flex will most likely break them.

i don't know much about the anti-squat or roll axis type stuff either. i'd suggest reading up as much as you can on the 4 link calculator.

will the coilovers bind at some point if they are not vertical or perpendicular to the axle while going over whoops?

I would think that if you have your shocks angled in some ( / \ looking from side of buggy) it would help with high speed jumps and hits.

hope this helps some, but i have absolutely no experience with building a KOH buggy, so read as much as you can from the builders that do.

[caseycrisp]

http://pirate4x4.com/forum/search.php?searchid=5943487

s3arch results for "KOH" in General 4x4 Discussion board of pirate. lots of good info.

[Geoffs89Pathy]

What sort of buggy you planning on building? pathfinder based? Full tube? Depending on what layout you go with will determine what suspension design will fit.

You know, having the axle move outward on the stuffed side, as with a panhard setup, isn't all that bad. It keeps the tires from rubbing the frame and gives more clearance for the shocks or coilovers. My rear tires would rub the frame at full stuff if it didn't move outward. And a one link still needs a panhard.

it would be full tube, good strong engine, possibly a small v8.
and i think if the 1 link is on the bottom then i could use a wishbone on top and not need a panhard.
it would work the same way a double tri would.

[Geoffs89Pathy]

i just really want to build something completely unique that will stun and out perform all the look-a-like buggys.
good 1 links are rare and like you said coils are rare and those are both what i am leaning towards.

[E4x4Eric]

Meh! do a Dana 60 IFS and IRS and run a twin turbo cummins in it. It will be fast and very capable for the KOH.

[alexrex20]

i just really want to build something completely unique that will stun and out perform all the look-a-like buggys.
good 1 links are rare and like you said coils are rare and those are both what i am leaning towards.

they're rare for a reason

[NissanNut]

If you want the best buggy style suspension. Check out RC forums like rccrawler.com They do some crazy stuff with suspension. but like king said most hi end RC buggys are triangulated 4 link with full hydro (servo on axle) frt and rear or 3 links.